Lux Occulta
Interview by Negru (December 2001 - Negura #3).


01. Hy Jaro Slav (or should I say The Fool?)! How are you doing? For the beginning, could you please present Lux Occulta to us, the history of the band, releases... What are you currently working on?
You can call as you wish. I'm constantly changing and so are my names, I have many of them. Some of them I'm proud of, some of them I despise. But The Fool is fine, it remembers me where I come from... Anyway, who cares about the history of the band, all this pitiful line-up changes and more or less successful shows that became a history long time ago? The only thing that really counts is the music and we are proud to have four albums done already - Forever Alone. Immortal., Dionysos, My Guardian Anger and The Mother And The Enemy. We have also recorded and released one demo tape called The Forgotten Arts and a limited edition mini-album called Maior Arcana (The Words That Turn Flesh into Light) which contains the demo stuff as well as some other rare, never released before songs, including Danzig and The Sisters Of Mercy covers. All these stuff was released on Polish independent label Pagan Records and is still available at their address. As I said before, we have experienced some line-up changes, but the core of Lux Occulta remains untouched, that means U., responsible for keyboards and composing and myself, responsible for vocals, lyrics and the whole concept behind the band.

02. I think there have been some changes in the band lately... Is it now settled down everything? How did affected these changes the latest developments in your music?
For last three years we're doing nothing but changing. We've changed our line-up a few times, we've changed our style and finally we've changed the label. Some of these changes were definitely good, like asking Vogg to join us on guitar and Martin to play bass. You can easily hear on My Guardian Anger that technical improvement is incredible in comparison to Dionysos. The good change is also leaving Pagan Records, though we can't say anything bad about them, and signing the deal with Maquiavel Music from Portugal. Our first album for them is not released yet, but they're already supporting us on all levels and I guess can rely on them. That's important. Some of the changes really hurt though, like Kriss, our drummer, leaving the band in the middle of the recording session of The Mother And The Enemy. We had to finish the recordings with the help of hired session drummer, which wasn't too comfortable, as you probably can imagine. At this very moment we're looking for some decent replacement behind the drums and I guess we've found someone. But it's too early to say his name.

03. All your albums have a general conceptual value. Could you briefly present us what were the main ideas behind The Forgotten Arts, Forever alone. Immortal and Dionysos? Where does this need for concepts come from to you? How do you choose what to explore with an album? Is it only a rational decision you take at a certain point, or is it more like an internal evolution pushing you to go different ways?
I had the concept of Forgotten Arts in my mind a few years before Lux Occulta even started. So when I came to one of the first rehearsals of the band with all the lyrics written and all the stuff done, I kind of impressed the other guys, ha, ha... The idea behind The Forgotten Arts was to restore the ethos of the real man, that was already lost in the maze of civilization, religions and all this stuff. The arts that were already forgotten were Creation, Love, War and Dying. Forever Alone. Immortal., our debut album, is based upon the beautiful Luciferian myth, in it's most romantic version. Lucifer, being the perfect symbol of individualism, pride, wisdom and free will was cursed by the evil God. Pretty simple picture of universe and first appearance of Gnostic heresies in my lyrics. Plus Bitter Taste Of Victory which belongs to the concept, but is pretty different as well. I guess it's one of the most personal lyrics I've ever had guts to write and so dark, so very dark... On the contrary Dionysos is much more bright, because it's about... Dionysos. The frenetic cult of The One Who Changes His Forms meant much more to me than just a fine inspiration to write cult metal lyrics. Some down to earth fuckers laugh at me when I say that these lyrics were written partially in trance, that Dionysos took my arm and helped me to write some passages. It's OK, you can laugh, but I will laugh as well, because you're too poor to ever experience that... Why Dionysos? Well, we do worship all these earthly pleasures that he represents, the hedonistic way of life. But Dionysos is not only about copulating Satyrs and drinking wine. There's a mystery in this myth, the mystery of Life and Death. You know, after Dionysos was out I tried to talk in the interviews about it as much as it was possible, but I realized that it makes the whole concept dangerously shallow and predictable when I explain everything in the beginning. The power of poetry is in its multidimensional nature, in its freedom of interpretation and I shall not explain too much in the interviews from that moment on. You know, if someone is too lazy to read the lyrics and think about them for a while, why should I bother? You ask me if these are rational decisions to write a concept album... They have to be, because sometimes it takes months to prepare to write really good lyrics, to discover all the sources and find all the traces. But I would never write a concept album about something I don't feel deep inside me, about something that is strange or unimportant for me. That's why The Mother And The Enemy is not a concept album - I just didn't feel like writing one and I didn't want to force myself to do something. That's why we will never have some concept album about medireview knights, vampires, dragons and all this true metal bullshit. I don't think about dragons when I wake up and when I go to job, so why should I waste my time and energy to sing about them on the stage?

04. Speaking on that, I think your last CD, My Guardian Anger has more than ever all kinds on meanings and significations, on all kind of levels. So, could you share some of the less obvious ones with us? Would you say that there is still a line uniting somehow all your works, or is it more like each one has a separate identity of its own (especially this last one)?
Yeah, I believe My Guardian Anger is still a concept album in a way, though you won't find any story nor any plot on it, if you know what I mean. It's more like a spiritual travel, a story of waking up the self-awareness. A journey through the universe without leaving your lousy room. You will find the key to the interpretation of My Guardian Anger in the subtitle of the album which goes like: "Re-Construction Of One Pocket-Size Universe With The Patchwork Method". The concept of My Guardian Anger came to me during the meditation with Tarot cards as well as while I was reading the Old Testament and some apocryphal Christian writings. I'm very proud of the lyrics because this time it's something more than childish, wannabe occultism. This album is really hermetic and almost impossible to understand for someone who's not into occultism, but also for someone who doesn't know the Bible. You have to be pretty educated to follow all the paths of this labyrinth of meanings. Not that I wanted to show off or something, I rather wanted to invite intelligent people to some sort of game of words and meanings. You want me to explain some less obvious levels of it, but why should I? My lousy interpretation would kind of kill the magical spirit of these lyrics, it would kill the poetry, leaving just some boring philosophical theories, if you know what I mean.

05. While the whole concept of Dionysos was about Greek culture, on your last CD you seemed to explore some other quite different territories... But how did you related to the Greek culture? Do you think it is easy for us at the moment to really connect and understand with this outstanding ancient culture? It is said that all the information about ancient cultures passed to us by the ancient Greek writers suffer more or less form an "interpretatio greaca"... as the Greeks tried to approach all of that based upon their inner cultural and spiritual patterns. So, what kind of interpretatio do you think we use in approaching the Greek culture? Is it a christiana one, or maybe a moderna/stupida one...?
I was raised Christian, I attended more or less Christian schools, I live in Christian society. If I'd say I can get rid off all these influences I'd lie. My fascination with the Greek culture is very, very deep, but I cannot say that I understand it all – because there are things that are dumb to your brain and speak directly to your heart. You have to live them, breath them and never try to understand them. But what can I do when my heart beats in a different rhythm than hearts of ancient Greeks. I am the child of the 20th century, I know coca-cola, latex condoms, heavy metal and Microsoft software. When I think of traveling I order the plane ticket and check the Yahoo weather reports instead of doing burnt offerings and asking gods to help me in the road. So, it's stupid to forget about the wisdom of ancient cultures, but it's even more stupid to pretend that contemporary world doesn't even exist. You can't turn back time, guys... These swords, fancy ancient clothes and all pagan shit looks nice, but it's just folklore, a theater. Don't cheat yourselves. If you'd go to real war, you'd bury your sword in the backyard and use some fucking uzi gun and other lethal weapons, invented by some Christian scientists. What kind of interpretatio do I use in approaching the Greek culture? Partially Christiana and partially moderna/stupida - because two thousands years of Christianity and superficial pop culture of today also belong to my heritage. I can't forget about it and I can't deny it. I am the child of my age.

06. Are you interested also in the orgiastic rituals characteristic for the Dionysian mysteries? What do you think was real the function of these mysteries? Do you know that Dionysos is a rather foreign figure even for the Greeks, being supposedly originated in the tuff lands of far Thracia and Frigia...? What does the wine represents for you? Could it have some profound meanings? How do you think about the Roman "culture", who seems not only destroyed the Greek culture, but as well the Celtic one and even our local Dacic one...?
I am interested in all dimensions of Dionysiac cult but I'd lie if I didn't say that its orgiastic, sexual side is something that attracted my attention in the first place. It's so different from ascetic and unnatural Christian attitude. Dionysos is also about animal side of our nature, that's why – another paradox - this is the most "human" deity. When it comes to blood of the god - wine - I'm pretty aware of both advantages and disadvantages of it. I know both sweet joy and deceitful blindness of it and I know that alcohol can be a blessing and a curse as well. It's all just a matter temperance and maturity, like with everything else. Going to the second part of your question – when compared to Greeks, Romans were barbarians, almost without their own culture and science. But they knew pretty well how to wage wars, how to fight, how to conquer foreign lands and in the end it was – and still is - the most important thing in this world. Take a look at Americans, they have one of the youngest and less sophisticated cultures around, but they rule this world.

07. I think you did personally the photos for Maior Arcana CD cover, which I see as a very interesting concept. Cold you please tell us more about the whole concept concerning it? What is your interest in the art of Alchemy? What do you think about C. G. Jung's perception, seeing Alchemy more like the predecessor of Psychology rather than of Chemistry...?
I guess you're getting too far in these questions urging me to explain all the lyrical and visual symbols included in our albums. You know, all symbols have both intellectual and emotional dimension, they appeal equally to mind and heart. I can explain the intellectual meaning of it, I can use words to describe all the aspects I wanted to include in them, but then you loose the emotional side of it. But as far as C.G. Jung is concerned, I guess he was right. It's kind of like I see it... But on the other hand Alchemy was both psychology and chemistry and several other sciences put together. All these sciences of today are very specialized, they're focused on themselves only, being totally blind to anything else. In the old days, three hundred years ago and earlier you would only have very few disciplines of science and knowledge, all of them being pretty wide. One philosophy contained elements of today's psychology, medicine, anthropology, sociology, politic sciences, philology, theory of arts etc...

08. As for The Guardian Anger, here I think the whole visual concept of the album is yours... Are you satisfied with its outcome? I see you also made some changes in the visual concept of Lux Occulta too... I think your new personal words are not so much into the usual Black Metal pseudonyms as they are more into a theatrical atmosphere... What were your intentions? What do they represent for you (if I may ask that...)?
Yes, I think the visual concept of My Guardian Anger is the best one we've head so far. Even the booklet of our newest album The Mother And The Enemy, being really good, isn't that impressive. But you know, this idea with Tarot cards - it doesn't happen every time... And our pseudonyms, well they were kind of links between us personally and the concept of the album. This was the final step making My Guardian Anger a total work of art - it didn't include only music, lyrics and the artwork, but also its creators, if you know what I mean. And we didn't choose these pseudonyms accidentally. If you knew us personally, you would be surprised how strongly they are attached to our personalities. Usual Black Metal pseudonyms? You're right, we're not into them. Are we usual Black Metal band, by the way?

09. Could you speak a little bit about what you tried to do on The Guardian Anger, on the music and on the lyrics side...? How do you see now the music of Lux Occulta? Is it still Pagan Metal for you? What so you think is the most important balance in your music? Or is it more important the one between the music and something else...? I see you are also one of the few bands really interested in the structure of the music... What do you think is the role and importance of structure in a musical arrangement? How do you work on that?
Pagan Metal?! We've never played Pagan Metal and never claimed that we do. We used to call our music Occult Metal from the very beginning and the difference is huge. My Guardian Anger is an Occult Metal album, no doubt about it. It's not Black Metal, because we've crossed the borders of Black Metal after Dionysos, but within the Occult Metal world we set our own rules. Anyway, we don't even use Occult Metal moniker these days, because I'm so bloody bored with pigeonholing music, with all these stupid names... Promoting The Mother And The Enemy we use only this ironic, pretty stupid slogan naming Lux Occulta music Fist Fucking, Ass Kicking, Wife Beating Black Metal. But if you call us Satanic Jazz Rock or Hateful Boogie Metal it's fine with me as well...


10. What about the lyrics? Are they based upon your direct experience, or on something else? What's the general meaning of the lyrics into your whole musical concept?
My personal experiences and books I read, people I meet everyday and I talk to as well as things I see on TV, movies, dreams, visions, fears, hopes, illusions - all these things and more put together are my inspirations. I can draw them basically from everywhere, I don't know any subjects or sources forbidden to metal lyricist. Unless you're in a power metal band and you have to limit yourself to chasing golden dragons and flying to the sky, otherwise your fans won't dig it. Of course even I know that in the end of the day there are some limitations and I would never write a happy hippie song for Lux Occulta. But I would never write a happy song anyway. Art of true and everlasting value always had its roots in pain, in blood, tears and sweat. And so has mine. To be honest I hate writing lyrics, it's always long and painful process, but when it's done I feel much better. It's like a burden taken off my breast.

11. There is also a video clip on your last CD, for the Kiss my sword track. I would say it is a little bit surprising for your music, much more into Death Metal and maybe a little bit familiar with some Vader ones. What do you think about that? Why did you choose precisely this track and this way of visually exploring it? What does the war means for you? Can we still call only war what a modern conflict would be? What is the function of war for you?
Vader video clip that you refer to, that is Cold Demons, was done almost one year after we did Kiss My Sword, that's what I think about it... We've chosen Kiss My Sword for the video because in a way this is a song about war and it's easier to illustrate war than opening of eleventh sephirah, ha, ha, ha. Besides, the song is fast and kind of straight in the face, which is also good for a video clip. What do I think of wars? Well, from my own, individual point of view they suck and I'm certainly not one of those bored kids hidden behind the monitors of their computers, who'd always say in interviews that they love war and shit like this. I don't feel like going to war and getting killed being 20 years old. Let me just tell you that Lux Occulta was founded when I was 21, if you know what I mean. I've got better things to do in my life than shitting my pants because someone that I can't even see is trying to kill me – because this is what war is really about. But on the other hand I can understand that from the larger historical perspective wars are sometimes necessary, they are unavoidable steps of evolving humanity. And they also have philosophical and religious dimension, which I tried to explore in Kiss My Sword. This is a song about sacrificing innocent beings, whole nations – in order to push humanity on higher level.

12. I saw also this track started a little bit of dispute for you, due to the use of a swastika inside of it. Did you enjoy being accused to be a nazi band? How do you see such political and ideological movements in these days? I think you raised an interesting hypothesis also with your position. I mean the Nazis first conquered Poland. So, how come quite a few Black Metal bands and associations over there praise both the polish nationalism and Adolf Hitler and its policy at the same time?
I guess you're the first on to form this question this way and I have to answer that... yes, I enjoy being accused of being a nazi. In fact, I enjoy being accused of everything one can imagine, because it only proves how stupid these people who point their fingers at us are. It is also one of the artist's duties to provoke, to irritate the normal majority of the society, to make them think about something else than just their stomachs. Anyway, we're neither nazi doctrine followers nor even nationalists. We consider ourselves Polish patriots, that's a fact, but it doesn't have any influence on our art. Everything we do in Lux Occulta is so far from politics, that you can't go farther... And I don't really know why some Polish guys worship Hitler and I don't care. I believe some of them say it's because Hitler was a war genius, which I find pretty strange, because if he was a genius he wouldn't loose this war and Poland would probably be an integral part of Third Reich now. And I would never answer this interview, because my grandparents would rot in working camps somewhere on the present territory of Austria. This is where they met, by the way...

13. What are your favorite writers into matters such as alchemy, occultism, comparative religion... Are you more into the modern ones (E. Levi, J. Evola, Rene Gueron, A. Crowley...) or the old are still better (Thales, Empedocles, Pythagoras...)?
I read it all or I should rather say I used to read it all... I guess I have not read anything connected with occultism in a year or so, maybe apart from some Tarot studies. I experience strange lack off faith, some serious crisis these days and you will understand that if you read The Mother And The Enemy lyrics carefully.

14. Are you by any chance familiar with the work of Romanian initiated writer Vasile Lovinescu, an important disciple of Rene Gueron? What about our famous Mircea Eliade, I.P. Culianu...?
I only know some works of M. Eliade, sorry. But as far as literature is concerned, I'm very into Ionesco plays.

15. I think you are also studying literature at the University in Krakow... How's that going on? Which are your preferred writers into this area? Are you more into poetry or novels? How about the theory of the literature (I always loved stuff like that: Propp, Ingarden...)? Are you currently reading something interesting?
I graduated literature at Jagiellonian University of Cracow three years ago and journalism at the Pedagogical Academy of Cracow one year ago. Basically both were waste of time, but it took me a while to realize that. What do I read at the moment? Well, I swallow one by one theoretical writings of Melchior Wankowicz, true classic of Polish journalism and at the same time I read Stephen King's Dream Catcher (kind of X-Files influenced what I find pretty strange for King). Unfortunately these days I don't have that much time for reading as I'd like to have so it always takes me a week or two to finish a book that should be finished in three days. I'm too busy in my job for things like that and when I come back home late in the evening I'm usually so exhausted mentally that I prefer some stupid TV talk-shows or kung-fu movies to best lecture. That means I only read heavily on weekends and when I travel.

16. You said My Guardian Angel marks you passing beyond Satanism and Christianity... So, what's beyond that? Is it fine for you? Did your involvement into Lux Occulta help you a little bit in being here? How?
What did I find beyond Satanism and Christianity? The Church Of Not with its highest priest Doubt rotting on the golden throne and Disappointment and Despair, his bastard children, standing on his right hand. It's so easy and secure to believe in something, but I can't find any faith in my, apart from faith in myself. Myself here and now.

17. I think you're almost ready to release a new album by now. Could you tell us something more about it? Which are the new elements you want to bring with it?
The Mother And The Enemy is out now and it's our most demanding and complex album to date. It has its roots in extremely aggressive black metal and technical death metal, but goes far beyond all that. You will hear some elements of industrial, trip-hop (do not mistake it for trip-hop, it's totally different thing!), jazz, swing, ambient, modern vanguard music... it's an unforgettable collage of strange and sinister sounds you have never heard before. You will find some instruments never used in extreme metal here, like saxophones, trumpets and analogue synthesizers as well as professional jazz female vocalist with a strong, beautiful voice, nothing like this operatic virgins usually used in metal. First reactions to our new album are pretty divided, some people say it's total shit, some other love it and say it's totally new dimension in extreme metal. But what I love most of all are the comparisons. So far our new album was compared to music of such bands like Celtic Frost, Voivod, Pestilence, Death, Nocturnus, Cynic, Ulver, Theory In Practice, Godflesh, Nine Inch Nails, Pan.Thy.Monium, Arcturus, Misanthrope, Samael... they're all great bands, aren't they? It's a real honor for us to be put in the same category as these metal giants. Lyrically The Mother And The Enemy is our most hateful and dark album yet, very sick and misanthropic. And hopeless...

18. You also changed your label after My Guardian Anger, from Pagan Records to Maquiavel Music. Are you satisfied with this movement? How is it for you NOT to be on Pagan Records after so many years of working with them?
We felt strongly connected with Pagan Records, but they didn't owe us if you know what I mean. We've come to the point where they couldn't or didn't want to give us anything more. I don't mean money or shit like that, but simple things like decent promotion and distribution. Even before The Mother And The Enemy was released Maquiavel Music arranged for us more interviews than Pagan Records in one year after My Guardian Anger was released. We felt that we deserved more and we decided to look for some other label. Not necessarily a big one, because Maquiavel Music is small as well, but we were looking for someone who'd offer us really good conditions and this is what these Portuguese guys did. I hope we've made a good choice and so far I have no reasons to complain. You know, it was easier for us to communicate with Pagan Records. Both Tomasz and us are Polish and we could meet once in a while, drink some beer together, bang our heads to Nun Slaughter or Blasphemy and discuss things. It's impossible with Portuguese guys who live so far away, on the opposite side of Europe. But there's always an e-mail and we talk on the phone from time to time, so I guess we'll be fine, ha, ha...

19. What does Lux Occulta represent for you now? Is it just your band, or is it something more...?
Of course it's not just a band, it's like my child or a beautiful house I've built with my own hands. It's something that I have created and that has been a relevant part of my life for last seven years. But if you ask me if I imagine living my life without Lux Occulta, I'd say yes, I do. I have some other plans and ideas and I wouldn't kill myself if the band suddenly split-up.

20. How are you planning to promote this new album? Will you eventually play here in Romanian too (maybe now that Bestial Records released a tape version of My Guardian Angel exclusively for Romania...).
I know you were supposed to play already around here, but due to all kinds of unfortunate events you didn't do it in the end... It would be real pleasure to play in Romania. I hope it will be possible to do it some day. I don't know yet about touring plans for 2002, but I hope Maquiavel Music will send us on some tour, maybe in August or September. It all depends on the sale figures and the response The Mother And The Enemy will receive in Western Europe. And nothing's sure since the album is very, very difficult and hard to get into.

21. Do you enjoy the live experience? Is it more fun to for you to play a great gig, or just to see one? How many shows have you done by now? Any memorable ones? What's your fave live band?
I loved Deep Purple with orchestra, which were Romanian philharmonics by the way, I loved gloomy romanticism of Nick Cave, drug-ridden Queens Of The Stone Age and mighty Venom that crippled on the Wacken stage straight out of hell! These were one of the best shows I've seen in my life... I really enjoy watching live shows, you can meet me on most European summer festivals and on almost every decent metal show in Poland. You know, some guys go to the disco to entertain themselves, some others love cinema (I don't say that I don't...) and some others enjoy this unforgettable stench of sweat, cigarette smoke and beer that you can only experience on the metal shows. But of course I prefer playing shows to watching them. I can hardly think of things better than this thrill you have screaming your guts out in the front of metal fans going nuts and banging their heads. I don't consider myself a musician, at least not a professional one, so our live experiences are not about music. I think that the ritualistic, cleansing aspect of them is much more important than sounds themselves.

22. Could you answer by yourself a question you would like being asked. Do you think the magazine editors usually ask you the right questions, the one YOU would like to be asked about? Is such a thing important? You base from the very beginning on sending something to the peoples through this way?
Basically, I like all kinds of questions that are well though of and leave some room for information that could be useful or entertaining for the people who will read the interview. Of course some questions are pretty obvious and keep on repeating in almost every interview. It's pretty boring to answer them all the time, but what can I do? It belongs to my duties, ha, ha...

23. Well, that would be all for the moment... Thank you very much for bothering to answer all the questions! Lasts words are yours...
Words of respect for the greatest questions I have ever had the opportunity to answer and for your incredible patience. Magick. Freedom. Art.